Sunday, August 19, 2007

Is this how we live?


14 comments:

Nate said...

I don't understand this. What is your take on it.

Dena G said...

We're talking in our small group about what it means to be the hands and feet of Jesus in our world--how can we accurately reflect the "Body of Christ", ie, how can we lay down our own lives to serve others?

We're still working through Shane Claiborne's book and have had some pretty intense discussion on whether everyone is "called" to move into inner-city neighborhoods or other poverty-stricken places and build community with those who are already living there.

For me, this poster ties in with that discussion and with some of what I said the other night on your "WWJD?" post--if we follow the "word becoming flesh and moving into the neighborhood" example, what does that look like for us?

If I did that, how, then, would I approach the man in the photo? (Right now, I would have to ask myself "WOULD I approach this man?" and I hope the answer would be "yes"...but I'm not sure.)

We talked tonight again about opening our doors to not just the homeless, but to travellers--wouldn't it be nice if believers were so "connected" that they never had to pay for a motel on a roadtrip?

Still getting my butt kicked by all of this...

Herschel said...

this is something that still is in question for me...i am not of the beleif that everyone is called into the innercities or ghettos....however i do believe everyone is called to do thier own part in taking care of the poor, the orphans, the widows....

doesnt the mother teresa or shane say something like -
"find your own calcutta."

we are each gifted and called to different things. i think satan uses guilt to make us feel bad for not doing something like shane or mother teresa when in fact that may not be where we are called. guilt can be very evily used by satan to discourage us and take us off our true paths.

Anonymous said...

Double amen to Herschel. Bloom where you're planted.

This came up in my class last week during a discussion about materialism. We watched a video from some TV special about real estate and how people are buying bigger and bigger houses. At one point, we were laughing at how ridiculous it was (this woman was giving a tour of her enormous bathroom and talking about how it made her feel like she was in "an enchanted forest"), but one guy in the class brought us back to reality. He shared how materialism is his testimony, that he used to BE that person, and how we should feel compassion for those people because they're lost, like the rich man in the "camel through the eye of a needle" scene in Matthew.

It was cool how it came up, because a couple people had already been sharing how they were starting to feel guilty for working in industries that seemed to feed the materialistic culture (retirement planning, architecture, etc.), but that brought a sense of balance back to the conversation--if we all moved to the ghetto, who's left to share Christ with the wealthy? Or the middle class? And is mass asceticism really the point, or even a virtue at all? I don't think so.

Totally, we're all responsible to do our part to take care of the poor. That's not biblically negotiable. But I totally agree with Herschel about how Satan plants and plays on our doubts and guilt to distract us from the opportunities we have to live like Jesus right where we are.

But as well, I know personally that there's more Jesus is calling me to do now than is currently reflected in how I live my life. I prioritize comfort over almost anything else, and that should bother me more than it does. Thanks for being a constant challenge to that tendency, D. I love reading your blogs.

Nate said...

Thanks for explaining your thoughts to me. I have been wondering about this particular thing lately myself. I do not believe that there ae "apprpved ways" to help people. We always tend to look at those that are, we believe, less fortunate than us, and try to help them. Why, becuase we normally feel guilty that we have more than they do, and they need it more than we do.

I used to think that too until I worked in downtown St. Paul, MN for three years. A lot of the homeless do not want our help. One day, I tried to explaing to a homeless guy how I could give him a job and get him off of the streets. He could not get away from me fast enough. Many of the people do not want to better their lives. Their lives are the way they want them to be. Unwanted help is called nuisance.

The way that I choose to serve God, is to treat everyone differently than they are used to. I am actually nice, and polite, and friendly, and speak to them as if they are the only people in the world. This attracts people like flies to, aaaah, well you know what. Anyway, they sense that I am different just from that. That is the door to, why are you so different. Then I get to tell them. That is how I believe God has chosen me to be a servant for him. Until I hear different, it is how I will continue.

Dena G said...

I'm with you, Hersch...I DON'T think we're all called to be a Mother Teresa or a Shane Claiborne, but I DO think we're to make a difference where we are. And, honestly, that's the hard part.

I truly believe that what Shane talks about in the book is the right way to live...and, for some of us, it might mean going to Calcutta or Iraq or even just to an inner city area in the US. But it might not (for most of us, probably not).

Going back to the quote on the poster--I think it's actually a verse from The Message, but...what if we were to adopt it as a way of life for ourselves? What if we became the living Word in our own neighborhoods? What if we never moved anywhere except off our couches, out our front doors and into the lives of our neighbors?

Honestly, it would be WAY more difficult for me to do that than it would be for me to fly off to Calcutta (or Mississippi?) to temporarily serve strangers. Why? Because it requires a lot of me...and that's why I keep saying this book is kicking my butt, because there's this HUGE gap between what I believe is right and what I'm actually doing. Stepping out my door requires me to become part of a not-so-safe community where people can see on an ongoing, long-term basis if I'm actually continually living as the hands and feet of Jesus.

I DO believe that a different way of life is possible...and I believe it all hinges on letting go of the "them and us" mentality to which we (I) still cling. I need to quit worrying about "serving the poor" and concentrate on building relationships--we all have strengths and weaknesses and financial poverty is not always a "weakness"...or a need to be met. I'm a natural-born "fixer" and not everyone needs to be fixed in the way *I* perceive they do. Maybe they need to fix me instead.

E...thanks for the reminder that the wealthy and the middle class need the Word to move into their neighborhoods, too. :-) All too often lately, I'm finding myself to be overly critical of the wealthy, only to later see that I'm guilty of the same things, just with a smaller price tag.

LOTS to think about on this little subject, eh?

Nate said...

"What if we became the living Word in our own neighborhoods? What if we never moved anywhere except off our couches, out our front doors and into the lives of our neighbors? Honestly, it would be WAY more difficult for me."

Hey Dena,
When I read that, I understood immediately. I will give you an off the wall analogy, but probably close. When the prim and proper girls go to spring break in florida, do you think that they intend to do the crazy things that they do? Why do they do it? Anonymity. There is no risk with strangers. But putting yourself out there with people you will see again and judge you for what you are doing, that is something else altogether. That is why I don't like the label "christian." It places expectations upon me that I did not ask for, and do not want. I have no desire to be the hands and feet of Jesus. Don't have any idea of why I would. I just want to be me, serving God as he asks me to.

Anonymous said...

I have no desire to be the hands and feet of Jesus. Don't have any idea of why I would. I just want to be me, serving God as he asks me to.

That is the way he asks us to serve him. All of us. Like the label or not, we are "little Christs," sent to take him out into the world, to the lost and broken and poor.

And as far as the poor not wanting help...well, that's something I have been wrestling with myself. I grew up poor (truly. Not just "we don't have cable" poor, but "free-lunch, turned-off utilities, eating dinner at the Mission" poor) I have family members who are poor and remain so, not entirely because they "don't want help," but there's definitely something more going on there than unlucky circumstances. There's a mentality there that either doesn't know how to be anything different, or doesn't know how not to be a victim of circumstances, or something. I don't know, but I can tell you that in one case of a close relative, it's not entirely her fault that she's poor, but it partly is. So lately, as I've been studying God's heart for the poor and his clear imperatives in Scripture about how we are to respond to the needs of the poor...I've been struggling with that very question--what if they don't want help? What does "help" look like when the person in question refuses to take correction and make changes in their life that would better their situation? I don't know.

However, God's concern for the poor is not gray or fuzzy. It's pretty clear in Scripture. It's also pretty clear that he wants his people to actively help the poor. I'm wrestling through what that looks like, but I don't think we can somehow conjure some unique will of God for us as individuals that excludes that.

Nate said...

I have no desire to be the hands and feet of Jesus. Don't have any idea of why I would. I just want to be me, serving God as he asks me to.

Erin, I baited you and you fell for my trap. (as I give a self satisfying chortle)(yes, sometimes I even naseuate myself)

I believe that God me me the way I am for a reason. If he wanted Jesus, he would have made Jesus again. But what I am really saying about that, is if we are constantly judging ourselves by perfection, we can only be disappointed and unhappy. God gave us what he wanted out of us. So to try to be anything else, even Jesus, is not being who God wants me to be.

Enough on that, but let get to poor. Poor can have many meanings. I do not have much money, but believe myself to be as rich as I can get. Because family means more to me than anything, even money. So poor can be anyone that is lacking something. I believe Oprah to be a poor person. She has all of the money one would like to have. But she shares her views openly, and she does not have God. To me, she is poor. So, she would be in need of my help.

Anonymous said...

About falling for bait: you got me--I'm a literalist and take everything at face value, so your sarcasm (and everyone else's) is lost on me :) Don't feel too self-satisfied ;) (I kid)

Interesting perspective on the poor and God's purpose for our lives. Not sure I agree. I have an inherent distrust for this vein of spiritual subjectivity that seems to be more and more popular in the church these days. Not that everything is black and white, obviously (I'm not exactly a fundy, am I Dena? :)), but neither is everything gray. If God created us exactly as he wants us to be, and there's no need to become anything else, what do you make of the Biblical call (by Paul, by Christ, by others) to be transformed (Romans 12:1-2)? Or the picture that one of God's main purposes in our lives is to change us (Phil. 1:6)? Or that we are God's representatives (2 Cor 5:20), immitating him (Eph. 5:1) and becoming like him (Eph. 4:15) and being Christ to the world (1 John 4:17)?

Sidenote: Dena, do you love that your blog has become such a forum for discussion? I think it's awesome. I remember when we were still trying to convince you to get a blog :) I love how unique each person's blog becomes.

Dena G said...

E-I was sitting here thinking that exact thing...I'm reading it all and LOVING it! Nothing better than a good discussion between persons who are engaging both brain and heart before speaking. I'm soaking it all up.

Nate--I'm NOT a literalist. :-) So...when I talk about being the hands and feet of Jesus, I don't mean that I'm aiming for a perfection I can't attain and, therefore, end up disappointed.

Jesus is the best human representation we have of God, so I figure if I look to him as an example and then walk out whatever passion God has put in me to the FULLEST extent possible, I'm doing what I should be doing.

Serving people is my passion. Speaking encouragement to broken, hurting people is my passion. If I do those things, I AM being the hands and feet and voice of Jesus (and therefore of God) to the world. Maybe it's just semantics...and maybe it's like the whole Christian/Christ follower/God follower terminology thing.

I do agree, Nate, that "poor" doesn't necessarily mean without financial wealth. For the sake of this discussion, though...it's what I'm talking about. And I still think it all comes down to building relationships and then, because of the relationship, being in a position to see and then meet needs. It's not about accosting a homeless guy on the street. ;-)

Like Hersch said, find your own Calcutta.

If I'd never gotten a blog, I would have missed out on some amazing dialogue with the Peres brothers...it's been worth it for that, if nothing else!

Anonymous said...

Good points, D. I'm with you.

Oh, and as a sidenote, I wanted to say that I'm not a literalist by choice--just part of how I'm wired :) Nor am I one to a personality-less extreme. I just realized that, to people who don't know me, that sounded pretty wooden and mechanical. Just wanted to put that out there. I enjoy these conversations and I enjoy people who challenge me to see the shades of gray and the principles beneath the "rules," but I think my tendency (at first) is just to take in information through my senses, so my first impression of something is going to be the face-value, literal one. Just wanted to clarify that I was speaking more of my personality, not my theological views :)

Nate said...

The way I deal in discussions, is to get the big wooden soon out, stick it in the pot, stir vigorously, and see what happens. Thanks for having fun with me. I do not believe that we do not meed to change, but with dedication to God, we have no choice but to change, whether we notice it or not. There have been for me, and others, certain key moments that we realize this change. For a friend of mine, it was watching a girl at a concert who couldn't hold it anymore. choose a sink. Instead of getting angry at her for butting ahead, or messing up the faciclities. She graciously helped her clean up. For me, it is when big promotions, or talk of lots of money, do not interest me anymore. We just fundamentally change because we follow God, ferverently. This change DOES NOT come about in the lukewarm "I do my duty and go every Sunday" type people. But those that actually crave God.

I have two posts about these things if you are interested. Archived in January, Works Because of Faith, and February Being Like Jesus.

And Erin, it is good that you do not live too near me. I would probably torture you with practical jokes aimed at your literalness.

Anonymous said...

strange. as an outsider to this whole discussion, it seems to me that you are both (eirn & nate)saying the same thing in different ways. two sides of the same coin.

by being who we were made to be, a unique person, we end up fulfilling god's call on our lives to be who he made us to be. this is what nate is saying, i believe, and also what the locals here would call "bloom where you're planted." (hence the title of this blog...)

and erin, if i understand correctly, is saying that when we are faithful to being the specific individuals god has called each of us individually to be ("blooming") then we cannot escape being jesus' hands and feet in this world. it just happens.

i think it is the concept of being "christ-like" that is raising semantics here. for erin, it seems important to know that she is following the same path that jesus trod by seeing the spirit that was in him in her and her actions in this world. and for nate, who in many ways is a literalist himself (don't let him fool you), it is important to note that for all of our "christ-like" talk, very few of us: walk on water, raise dead, live penniless & homeless by choice, get threatened by the religious right to the point of not being able to enter a town publically, blah, blah, blah... the examples could go on and on in this vein. yet these were specific things that god wanted from his son and not for each one of us to try to copy.

so you're both right. whatever picture or concept helps you further down the path of submission and obedience to the trancendant one... all the better i say.

donuts anyone?