...I have some questions. Maybe someone has some answers? :-) I would like to present my questions in an unbiased fashion, but I'm relatively certain that's not going to happen, so...please wade through my puddles of preconceived prejudices as best you can!
I listened to a sermon tonight on the subject of fasting. The speaker was the pastor of a church in Florida and he encourages the members of his church to go on a 21-day fast at the beginning of each year in order to seek God's favor, spiritually, financially, medically, etc.
He gave several Scripture references which I, unfortunately, didn't write down as he was speaking, so I'm going to have to rely on my semi-faulty memory until I can go back and listen to him again and get the exact references.
He started by saying that, for a Christian, fasting is NOT an "option", because the Scriptures give three "definites"--"when you pray", "when you give", and "when you fast" (not "IF" you pray, fast, or give). I don't have a problem with that...there have been times that I've known God has called me to fast from something (sometimes food, sometimes other things) for a period of time and it's never seemed like a weird "out there" thing to do.
What I DID have a problem with was the fact that he seemed to be saying IF you fast, God is required to honor that fast by blessing you with unexpected financial gain, miraculous healing of health problems (he said that at the end of their church's fast each year, infertile couples immediately get pregnant), other life successes, etc. I'm having a difficult time digesting that in the way I'm interpreting it...has my God been reduced to no more than a puppet on the end of a string I'm yanking? And he said that God honors proportionally--if you fast for half a day, He's going to honor that and bless your small effort, but those who fast for a whole day, or a whole week, or a whole month, He's going to bless more--drop some more fasting time into the vending machine and you get a more expensive selection of blessings to choose from, eh?
He DID quote a verse from the second chapter of Joel, so I looked it up and read the entire chapter, which seems to me to head in an ENTIRELY different direction than he was taking--the chapter DOES talk about fasting, but they way I'm reading it, it's more about repentance ('"return to me with all your heart, with fasting and weeping and mourning") and it's the rending of the people's hearts in repentance that leads to His turning back to them with compassion and blessing.
I'm going to study this some more and read all of the Scriptures regarding fasting, but I would really like to hear what some of y'all have to say about the subject. What do YOU think about fasting? Do you think I'm being overly critical of this sermon and maybe misinterpreting what he's saying? (I know, that's hard to answer since you haven't heard the sermon! I'll be glad to let anyone borrow the CD if you want to listen to it for yourself.)
Meanwhile, here are the verses from Joel 2 (from the NIV)--I've bold-faced what appeared especially relevant to me.
5 Is this the kind of fast I have chosen,
only a day for a man to humble himself?
Is it only for bowing one's head like a reed
and for lying on sackcloth and ashes?
Is that what you call a fast,
a day acceptable to the LORD ?
6 "Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter—
when you see the naked, to clothe him,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?
8 Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness will go before you,
and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.
9 Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I.
"If you do away with the yoke of oppression,
with the pointing finger and malicious talk,
10 and if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry
and satisfy the needs of the oppressed,
then your light will rise in the darkness,
and your night will become like the noonday.
11 The LORD will guide you always;
he will satisfy your needs in a sun-scorched land
and will strengthen your frame.
You will be like a well-watered garden,
like a spring whose waters never fail.
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7 comments:
i thought that scripture was from isaiah....anyways,
this sounds alot like prayer of jabez stuff, and i htink you probably know what i think of that...
i totally think fasting is not a self-thing. We dont fast for oursleves really. We fast both to honor God i think to humble ourselves. Not financial gain. Not to heal ourselves. etc.
One exception that i have seen is that of Bill Bright. He founded Campus Crusade and he said he did a forty hour fast every year for vision and for God to bring a revival to the USA. And he said God always brought him vision and he always saw God move the rest of the year to bring people to Christ. but once again, this isnt a selfish fast...
You're right--I had the verses from Joel copied and then changed my mind and pasted the Scripture from Isaiah 58 instead...and forgot to change the reference!! Sorry 'bout that... :-( That's what I get for trying to think straight after a long day.
Here are the verses from Joel:
12 "Even now," declares the LORD,
"return to me with all your heart,
with fasting and weeping and mourning."
13 Rend your heart and not your garments. Return to the LORD your God,for he is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding in love, and he relents from sending calamity. 14 Who knows? He may turn and have pity and leave behind a blessing...
I think you probably have the same feelings about the prayer of Jabez that I do... ;-) To me, this is all hocus-pocus stuff that doesn't line up with the intent of the Bible. Like Joey was saying Sunday morning, it's NOT about us or what we can gain--it's about our worship and our sacrifice.
I just know that I don't want to be guilty of TRYING to reduce God to the stature of a McDonald's drive-through window employee, with me ordering what I want, giving Him my money and waiting for Him to dole out what I've ordered...and that's what this sermon smacked of to me.
133
Although I obviously haven't heard the sermon, what I gathered from your summary sounded very suspect to me. It "smacks" of a LOT of things to me, but I'm trying to supress the rising vomit that comes to my throat as a reaction against my distasteful experience in the charismatic church and actually be a bit objective here :) (but I hear you--it's hard to do that.)
The Joel passage appears to have been taken grossly out of context, which is definitely a red flag concerning any Bible teacher's credibility, in my opinion.
As well, one of the main things I have repeatedly heard in teachings about fasting is that it is NOT a scriptural command. The bible does say "when you fast," which communicates that it is taken as a given that we will fast. But since it's nowhere stated as an imperative, we should probably hestitate to emphasize it too heavily, or to create an imperative where there isn't one. (Hmm...i think that's called "legalism"....). Bible teachers should emphasize what the Bible emphasizes (like loving people, being in community, sharing the gospel) rather than what it does not emphasize. "The main things are the plain things and the plain things are the main things."
And I'm with both of you about fasting not being a self-thing. Christianity in general is not a self-thing, and whenever I hear teachers hinting, implying, or outright teaching that we do things for God so that we can get something in return, my guard comes up and my feathers get ruffled. It is biblical that God blesses us as we act in faith and take steps of obedience that he calls us to (John 13:17, James 1:21-25), but there are subtle slants in motive and focus that can quickly pervert this into a "what's in it for me," God-the-vending-machine kind of theology. And I think that's putrid.
So much for being objective!
sorry about the 133 thing...I was typing that on another page, and I don't know how, but somehow it typed in the box and when I hit return for the other page, it posted it here...I love computers, but they're stupid sometimes.
Anyway, onto the subject of fasting. I can tell you that I don't think I've ever truly fasted. Mainly because I don't believe God has ever called me to fast. I've always believed that if you were seeking God, He would direct when and if you're fasting. I don't know that there should be a set time every year that you do it, unless it's in God's will. By the way, I totally believe Bill Bright was in God's will doing it every year because of the man of God he was. However, I wholeheartedly do not agree with the 21-day fast at the beginning of every year for betterment of our lives.
First of all, I don't believe these people that are doing this are truly hearing from God to fast for 21 days. Some of them may be and some of them may not be. Really who am I to say? But I do believe if they're doing it for financial gain and all the things that you mentioned, then they're not doing it for the right reasons. I think that when you fast, it's a time with you and God, and that's it. The blessings that come from that time aren't to be expected. I think it's fine to ask to be blessed, but I don't think we should fast to be blessed.
So basically what I'm saying is I pretty much agree with both of you...lol
haha...erin, you posted two minutes before I did...now I'll have to go back and read yours, too....okay. I agree with all of you :)
You guys all rock!! Thanks for sharing.
I just talked to Chad a little while ago and he's sending me some information from a paper he wrote on the subject of fasting--I think he's going to scan it and email it to me, so I'll probably post some or all of it here, so you can see what he has to say. I don't always agree with him, but I always love to hear his perspective.
I want to qualify my original remarks (again) by saying that I have some prejudicial background junk through which I'm hearing this sermon and may be, therefore, demonizing it to a greater extent than I should, but I'm perceiving to be the old "name it and claim it" gospel just cloaked in a new disguise.
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